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Challenge: Subject: "19" and computer
The understanding of The creature(27/82) as computer is imo far fetched....The verse say: "Wa itha waqa a alejhimul qawlu/And when the Word is fulfilled against them", i understand, that it speaks about happening on the j day, it will be clear for you Gw if you read verses that follow 27/82, that is, verses 27/83-85. Verses 27/83-85 speak in very clear terms about happening on the J day, there is no doubt about it. Pay notice to the following words in 27/85 wa waqa a alejhimul qawlu/And the Word will be fulfilled against them "And the Word will be fulfilled against them(wa waqa al qawlu alejhim) and they will be unable to speak (in plea)."27/85
The verse in discussion: [27:82] At the right time, we will produce for them a creature, made of earthly materials, declaring that the people are not certain about our revelations.
So, your conclusion based on some of the Arabic words and on the following verses is that after the earth has persished as we know it, and we all stand before God to be judged, God will bring forth a beast or insect (going by the choice of words of other translators) to declare that people had not been sure about God's revelations...
Let's put that theory to the Quranic test..
First you claim that the meaning of the verse becomes clear when reading the verses that follows. The surrounding verses are of course relevant. Therefore, to give a more complete picture, the preceeding verses are enclosed here.
Verse No Khalifa Pickthall Sher Ali Yusuf Ali 27:77 And most assuredly, it is a guide and mercy for the believers. And lo! it is a guidance and a mercy for believers. And verily it is a guidance and a mercy for the believers. And it certainly is a Guide and a Mercy to those who believe. 27:78 Your Lord is the One who judges among them in accordance with His rules. He is the Almighty, the Omniscient. Lo! thy Lord will judge between them of His wisdom, and He is the Mighty, the Wise. Verily, thy Lord will decide between them by HIS judgment, and HE is the Mighty, the All-Knowing. Verily thy Lord will decide between them by His Decree: and He is Exalted in Might, All-Knowing. 27:79 Therefore, put your trust in GOD; you are following the manifest truth. Therefor (O Muhammad) put thy trust in Allah, for thou (standest) on the plain Truth. So put thy trust in ALLAH, surely, thou art on manifest truth. So put thy trust in God: for thou art on (the path of) manifest Truth. 27:80 You cannot make the dead, nor the deaf, hear the call, if they turn away. Lo! thou canst not make the dead to hear, nor canst thou make the deaf to hear the call when they have turned to flee; Verily, thou canst not make the dead to hear, nor canst thou make the deaf to hear the call, when they retreat turning their backs. Truly thou canst not cause the dead to listen, nor canst thou cause the deaf to hear the call, (especially) when they turn back in retreat.
27:81 Nor can you guide the blind out of their straying. The only ones who will hear you are those who believe in our revelations, and decide to be submitters. Nor canst thou lead the blind out of their error. Thou canst make none to hear, save those who believe Our revelations and who have surrendered. And thou canst not guide the blind out of their error. Thou canst make only those to hear who believe in Our Signs, so they submit. Nor canst thou be a guide to the blind, (to prevent them) from straying: only those wilt thou get to listen who believe in Our Signs, and they will bow in Islam. 27:82 At the right time, we will produce for them a creature, made of earthly materials, declaring that the people are not certain about our revelations. And when the word is fulfilled concerning them, We shall bring forth a beast of the earth to speak unto them because mankind had not faith in Our revelations. And when the sentence is passed against them, WE shall bring forth for them an insect out of the earth which shall wound them because people did not believe in Our Signs. And when the Word is fulfilled against them (the unjust), we shall produce from the earth a beast to (face) them: He will speak to them, for that mankind did not believe with assurance in Our Signs. Here you see that the verses preceeding this prophecy talks about the way people will react to God's revelations. Then it provides news of something to come to declare (speak of) the fact that people have (had) doubts about God's revelations. So how do you picture this scenario? Do you see God standing in the background waiting for this creature from, or out of, the earth, this beast of insect, explaining to those among mankind that were not certain about God's signs that they had doubts?! What would be the purpose of this and how do you see this fitting in with God's description in the Quran of Judgement Day?
[20:108] On that day, everyone will follow the caller, without the slightest deviation. All sounds will be hushed before the Most Gracious; you will hear nothing but whispers.
[55:39] On that day, no human, nor a jinn, will be asked about his sins.
[55:40] Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?
[55:41] (This is because) the guilty will be recognized by their looks; they will be taken by the forelocks and the feet.You also base this belief on the wordings "waqa al qawlu alejhim" which means, "and when the word is fulfilled.." or "when the word has gone forth", or "the word has effect.." as it is translated by different translators in different parts of the Quran. These words are there to to indicate fulfillment.
Here are some other verses in the Quran with the same wording, presented here first in their transliterad form for comparison with 27:82 & 85, then with the translation of the verse:
27:82. Wa-itha waqaAAa alqawlu AAalayhim akhrajna lahum dabbatan mina al-ardi tukallimuhum anna alnnasa kanoo bi-ayatina la yooqinoona
27:85. WawaqaAAa alqawlu AAalayhim bima thalamoo fahum la yantiqoona
11:40. Hatta itha jaa amruna wafara alttannooru qulna ihmil feeha min kullin zawjayni ithnayni waahlaka illa man sabaqa AAalayhi alqawlu waman amana wama amana maAAahu illa qaleelun
Verse No Khalifa Pickthall Sher Ali Yusuf Ali 11:40 When our judgment came, and the atmosphere boiled over, we said, "Carry on it a pair of each kind,* together with your family, except those who are condemned. Carry with you those who have believed," and only a few have believed with him. (Thus it was) till, when Our commandment came to pass and the oven gushed forth water, We said: Load therein two of every kind, a pair (the male and female), and thy household, save him against whom the word hath gone forth already, and those who believe. And but a few were they who believed with him. Till -- when our command came and the fountains of the earth gushed forth - WE said, `Embark therein two of every kind, male and female, and thy family, except those against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe.' And there had not believe in him except a few. At length, behold! there came Our command, and the fountains of the earth gushed forth! We said: "Embark therein, of each kind two, male and female, and your family - except those against whom the word has already gone forth,- and the Believers." but only a few believed with him. 17:16. Wa-itha aradna an nuhlika qaryatan amarna mutrafeeha fafasaqoo feeha fahaqqa AAalayha alqawlu fadammarnaha tadmeeran
Verse No Khalifa Pickthall Sher Ali Yusuf Ali 17:16 If we are to annihilate any community, we let the leaders commit vast corruption therein. Once they deserve retribution, we annihilate it completely. And when We would destroy a township We send commandment to its folk who live at ease, and afterward they commit abomination therein, and so the Word (of doom) hath effect for it, and we annihilate it with complete annihilation. And when WE intend to destroy a township, WE command its people who live in comfort to adopt the way of righteousness but they transgress therein, so the sentence of punishment becomes due against it, so WE destroy it with utter destruction. When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress; so that the word is proved true against them: then (it is) We destroy them utterly. 23:27. Faawhayna ilayhi ani isnaAAi alfulka bi-aAAyunina wawahyina fa-itha jaa amruna wafara alttannooru faosluk feeha min kullin zawjayni ithnayni waahlaka illa man sabaqa AAalayhi alqawlu minhum wala tukhatibnee fee allatheena thalamoo innahum mughraqoona
Verse No Khalifa Pickthall Sher Ali Yusuf Ali 23:27 We then inspired him: "Make the watercraft* under our watchful eyes, and in accordance with our inspiration. When our command comes, and the atmosphere boils up, put on it a pair of every kind (of your domesticated animals), and your family, except those condemned to be doomed. Do not speak to Me on behalf of those who transgressed; they will be drowned. Then We inspired in him, saying: Make the ship under Our eyes and Our inspiration. Then, when Our command cometh and the oven gusheth water, introduce therein of every (kind) two spouses, and thy household save him thereof against whom the Word hath already gone forth. And plead not with Me on behalf of those who have done wrong. Lo! they will be drowned. So WE directed him by revelation:`Make the Ark under Our eyes and according to Our revelation. And when Our command comes, and the fountains of the earth gush forth, take thou into it two pairs of every species and thy family, except those of them against whom the word has already gone forth. And address ME not concerning those who have done wrong; they shall, surely, be drowned. So We inspired him (with this message): "Construct the Ark within Our sight and under Our guidance: then when comes Our Command, and the fountains of the earth gush forth, take thou on board pairs of every species, male and female, and thy family- except those of them against whom the Word has already gone forth: And address Me not in favour of the wrong-doers; for they shall be drowned (in the Flood). 46:18. Ola-ika allatheena haqqa AAalayhimu alqawlu fee umamin qad khalat min qablihim mina aljinni waal-insi innahum kanoo khasireena
Verse No Khalifa Pickthall Sher Ali Yusuf Ali 46:18 Such are the ones stamped as disbelievers among every generation of jinns and humans; they are losers. Such are those on whom the Word concerning nations of the jinn and mankind which have passed away before them hath effect. Lo! they are the losers. These are they against whom the sentence of punishment was fulfilled along with the communities of the jinn and men that had gone before them. Indeed, they were the losers. Such are they against whom is proved the sentence among the previous generations of Jinns and men, that have passed away; for they will be (utterly) lost. As you can now clearly see, from the Quran, the wording in itself, qawlu alejhim, does not indicate that it occurs in Judgement day.
"Waqa al qawlu alejhim" are the very same words that are used in 27/82 for describing the time when the creature will come. From that I concluded that the creature will come on The J day and not before it. Compare rk and other translation and notice how he imo hide/conceal(kefere) this fact, his translation of those verses is way too interpretative. The same words(Waqa al qawlu alejhim) in 27/82 and 27/85 he translated totally different.
Verse No Khalifa Shakir Sher Ali Yusuf Ali 27:82 At the right time, we will produce for them a creature, made of earthly materials, declaring that the people are not certain about our revelations. And when the word shall come to pass against them, We shall bring forth for them a creature from the earth that shall i wound them, because people did not believe in Our communications. And when the sentence is passed against them, WE shall bring forth for them an insect out of the earth which shall wound them because people did not believe in Our Signs. And when the Word is fulfilled against them (the unjust), we shall produce from the earth a beast to (face) them: He will speak to them, for that mankind did not believe with assurance in Our Signs. 27:85 They will incur the requital for their wickedness; they will say nothing. And the word shall come to pass against them because they were unjust, so they shall not speak. And the sentence shall come to pass against them because they did wrong, and they will be speechless. And the Word will be fulfilled against them, because of their wrong-doing, and they will be unable to speak (in plea). The meaning ends up being the same if you focus on the essence of the message; "Will incur", "word shall come to pass", "sentence shall come" or "word will be fulfilled" all means the same thing.
The same goes for; "at the right time", "when the word shall come", "when the sentence is passed", "when the word is fulfilled". It is a prophecy of something to come. As with all prophecies, we know when they have come to pass as they happen or after the fact, not before.
Now that we know that it refers to the computer and the revelation and spreading of of the mathematical miracle through it, we see signs supporting this conclusion as well. One such sign is connected to the input voltage of any computer in the world, 115 or 230. How is there a sign in this you may ask. Well, remember that Rashad Khalifa's duty was to prove to the world that the 114 suras of the Quran is all we need for salvation. Also consider that the Gematrical Value of his name is 1230, then it becomes very apparent.
If you start dividing this number 115, 230, you are left with 114+1. With one up, it continues 1, 230. That gives us 114, 1230. Is this a coincidence you think? Did Rashad Khalifa (1230) manipulate the computer voltage to be 115/230V so that this powerful connection could be made?! No other numbers could have produced a more powerful connection. 114 for the 114 suras in the Quran and 1230 for the name of the person who was commissioned to remind the world that the word of God is complete, perfect and fully detailed.
Also, think about the verse 27/82. Who are "them" in the phrase "And when the Word is fulfilled against them". "Them" are 1.disbelievers of muhamad era or 2.disbelievers in general, disbelievers of all times. If it is first case then the creature has already come, and if it is second case then there is no room for it to come as a sign before the hour because of 47/18 "Are they waiting until the Hour comes to them suddenly? All the signs thereof have **already come**. Once the Hour comes to them, how will they benefit from their message? " 47/18 You see, all the conditions for the coming of the hour were already**fulfilled** in the time of messenger muhamed and from muhamads era till our days the hour could come suddenly, there was nothing that "could stoped" God to start the j day , that is, there was no reasons - prophecies or signs that should be fullfiled before the coming of the hour.
If you conclude that the propechy of the creature (beast or insect as you may prefer translating it), is one of the signs for the approaching of the end of the world, this is not the case. There are several prophecies in the Quran that have nothing to do with determining the end of the world. Thus, your confusion starts when you mix talking about "a sign before the hour" and signs about The Hour. The Quran, being the Final Scripture, pinpoints all the signs connected to the end of the world. To read all about it, click here.
Verse No Khalifa Pickthall Shakir Yusuf Ali 47:18 Are they waiting until the Hour comes to them suddenly? All the signs thereof have already come.* Once the Hour comes to them, how will they benefit from their message? Await they aught save the Hour, that it should come upon them unawares ? And the beginnings thereof have already come. But how, when it hath come upon them, can they take their warning ? Do they then wait for aught but the hour that it should come to them all of a sudden? Now indeed the tokens of it have (already) come, but how shall they have their reminder when it comes on them? Do they then only wait for the Hour,- that it should come on them of a sudden? But already have come some tokens thereof, and when it (actually) is on them, how can they benefit then by their admonition? Another argument you came up with was the suggestion that this prophecy would either apply to a limited number of people or all people on earth, in all times. As with all prophecies, they apply to the people destined to witness them. What is different about the miracle of the Quran compared to previous miracles, is that it is a perpetual sign. It is not limited in time and space like the previous miracles.
The revelation of the mathematical miracle of the Quran has unveiled flagrant idolatrous practices not only in so called 'Islam', but also in Christianity, Judaism and other religion of the world. There is no doubt that the sign revealed through the help of the computer are showing to the world that mankind have gone astray en masse, continuing to practice their original sin here on earth, the only unforgivable offense, idol worship.
Also, Gog and Magog imo is the same case- they/it will be freed/opened/set loosed, not before hour(as rk claimed), but after its coming-that is when the hour is already started they will be a part of happening on the J day. Cause Gog and Magog are mentioned in 17th verse, if we count from the end of both chapters where they are mentioned, rk propheciesed that they will "reappear" in 1700th year after hijra"- (What a logic!) read the vereses and you will see that gog and Magog will "reappear " on J day and not before it:
18/98 He said: "This is a mercy from my Lord: But **when the promise of my Lord comes to pass**, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true." 018.099 ON THAT DAY We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another and the *trumpet will be blown*, and We shall collect them all together. 018.100 And We shall present Hell that day for Unbelievers to see, all spread out,-
It is very clear that verses speak about the happenings on the j day.
Gog and Magog will be the final sign, just before the end of the world, as explained by Rashad.
*18:94-98 One of my duties as God's Messenger of the Covenant is to state that Gog and Magog, the final sign before the end of the world, will reappear in 2270 AD (1700 AH), just 10 years before the end. Note that Gog and Magog occur in Suras 18 and 21, precisely 17 verses
before the end of each sura, representing 17 lunar centuries (see 72:27 and Appendix 25).As we see in the verse speaking of this matter, God and Magog will be allowed to invade with one another first, THEN the horn will be blown and all will be summoned together.
[18:99] At that time, we will let them invade with one another, then the horn will be blown, and we will summon them all together.
This proves that this is not happening ON the actual Judgement Day, as there will be no invading done on the Judgement Day, as you see in the following verse (among others).
[20:108] On that day, everyone will follow the caller, without the slightest deviation. All sounds will be hushed before the Most Gracious; you will hear nothing but whispers.
The Creature from earth (imo it means that it will come from the earth and not that it is made from earhly material) will speak to people that they actually were not true believers in verses of God. The fact that many people will become conscious of their disbelieving not until when J day came- is repeated many times through Quran. Only on j day it will be known to them that they actually were disbelievers-and in that context should be looked at creature from earth
See connection with this verse
006.158 Are they waiting to see if the angels come to them, or thy Lord (Himself), or certain of the signs of thy Lord! On the day when some of the signs of your Lord come, No soul will profit from its faith if did not believe before, or earn good through its faith. Say: Wait; we too are waiting.
Although it is true that many people will not realize that they were disbelievers or idol worshipers until it is too late, this does not reduce the importance of God's signs to us while we are here on earth. God tells us to remind each other. Would He not remind us?
[51:55] And remind, for the reminder benefits the believers.
[35:37] They will scream therein, "Our Lord, if you get us out of here, we will work righteousness, instead of the works we used to do." Did we not give you a life-long chance, with continuous reminders for those who would take heed? Did you not receive the warner? Therefore, taste
(the consequences). The transgressors will have no one to help them.You see, there is no signs of the Hour before the Hour as rk, sunnies and others claim. That is because cause God says in the verse that when some signs come no soul will profit from its faith-cause, J-day has already started and there is no room for repentace. And rk and sunnies claimed that some signs will come when there is still room for repentance, that is, before j day- when repentance is still possible.
No signs before the Hour....what would be the purpose of signs if they are not BEFORE an occurence. When the actual occurence is HERE, there are no need for signs of IT. The fact that IT is HERE, should be a sign enough don't you think!?
The following verse also confirms my understanding, this is very important verse for the topic:
"Are they waiting until the Hour comes to them suddenly? All the signs thereof have **already come**. Once the Hour comes to them, how will they benefit from their message? " 47/18
You see, all the conditions for the coming of the hour were already**fulfilled** in the time of messenger muhamed(coming of the zeal of the announcers) and last scripture and Law-Quran. There was no room for coming of the "confirming messenger" after announcer/prophet Muhamad, as rk claimed "proving" it by his wrong understanding of 3/81.
So, are you suggesting that signs are not useful unless they coincide with the time of prophet Muhammad!? Because above here it seems as if you are saying that "there is no signs of the Hour before the Hour", yet you claim here that "all conditions for the hour were already **fulfilled** in the time of messenger muhamed."
All the 'conditions' for the coming of the hour, as you express it, were actually fulfilled even before we human beings came to this world. Just as The Hour has been predetermined by God, so has His signs been predetermined.
With the revelation of the Quran, God's final scripture to the world, all the signs of the end of the world has already been pinpointed.
It seems however that you are getting confused about issues in the Quran. The discussion started with talking about 27:82, which is a prophecy that is not connected to The Hour, but somehow you are connecting the two...
"Are they waiting until the Hour comes to them suddenly? All the signs thereof have already come. Once the Hour comes to them, how will they benefit from their message? " 47/18
The hour can come in the next second or in the next minute.
p.s. the only objection to this understandiong could be brought if someone want to interpret "the True promise" in 21/97 as The hour8j day), but it should be interpreted as throwing of disbelievers in hell(as described in 21/98) or similar, cause we have seen that 18/98-100 CLEARLY, without smallest ambiguity, claims that Gog and Magog will not be let loose until J day.
The Hour will come suddenly only to those who do NOT expect it. The believers will expect it, so there will not be anything sudden about it for them. As we read in the following verse, only the disbelievers are taken by surprise when it comes to God and His plan.
[4:104] Do not waver in pursuing the enemy. If you suffer, they also suffer. However, you expect from GOD what they never expect. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.
God made it a duty for the believers to prepare a will when death approaches. This means He will prepare the believers for the event. They will be prepared for it.
[2:180] It is decreed that when death approaches, you shall write a will for the benefit of the parents and relatives, equitably. This is a duty upon the righteous.
As for claiming that Gog and Magog will happen on Judgement Day, the verse 18:99, which speaks about unleashing them both against each other. On Judgement Day, no such actitivites will take place. Everything on earth will perish, there will be no unleashing, no invading, no surging like waves on one another, only obedience and whispers in God's presence. That is why the verse reads "THEN the horn will be blown." As Rashad correctly has pointed out, this is the final sign before the end of the world.
Verse No Khalifa Pickthall Sher Ali Yusuf Ali 18:99 At that time, we will let them invade with one another, then the horn will be blown, and we will summon them all together. And on that day we shall let some of them surge against others, and the Trumpet will be blown. Then We shall gather them together in one gathering. And on that day WE shall leave some of them to surge against others, and the trumpet will be blown. Then shall WE gather them all together. On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another: the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together. Here are other verses in which the term THEN is used between two events.
[54:1-2] The Hour has come closer, and the moon has split. THEN they saw a miracle; but they turned away and said, "Old magic."
Between the event described in 54:1, which occured on 21st of July, 1969, when the first astronauts on the moon brought back rocks from the moon to earth, and the second, i.e. the unveling and rejection of the mathematical miracle of the Quran, there were roughly 10 years.
The moment of the fulfilment of the "moon splitting" is confirmed by the hour of departure. The Lunar Module left the lunar surface at 17: 54: 1 (Universal Time) or 1: 54: 1 (EDT) and as you have seen it above, verse [54:1] is the verse that deals with the prophesy. All over the world, the minutes and seconds are the same, only the hours differ. As you can see here, God put the exact minute and second of this event in His scripture.
021.095 But there is a ban on any population which We have destroyed: that they shall not return, 021.096 Until, when Gog and Magog are let loose, and they hasten out of every mound, 21/97 And the True Promise draweth nigh;then the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!" 21/98 Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come.
p.s. toward my best knowledge of arabic I think that the root of the word "daabah" translated as the "creature", caries the meaning of moving ,that is, it means "the creature that is moving"; and computers are not moving.
A computers is made of earthly materials. All earthly materials moves, even if we cannot perceive it, just as everything on earth submits to God, willingly or unwillingly.
[13:15] To GOD prostrates everyone in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and so do their shadows in the mornings and the evenings.
[16:49] To GOD prostrates everything in the heavens and everything on earth - every creature - and so do the angels; without the least arrogance.
Everything is everything. Everything that is prostrating is moving. Electrons and protons are moving. They are totally submitting to God.
[41:11] Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."