[Back to List of Challenges - Home - Challenges of Specific Sites ]
The text by the challenger is in Blue - The answer is in Black. For your convenience the challenge is represented by it's main objections/points. We've not taken the time to answer arguments that are not fact or source based. An example of such an argument would be a reference to false data without listing a single example of such data.
Messenger/prophet-GET RID of unquranic definitions (A must read)
The definitions of Rashad Khalifa that "prophet brings the book and messenger not" and that "every prophet is a messenger but not every messenger is prophet" are FALSE DEFINITIONS - UNQURANIC definitions.
His argumentation was just like sunnie`s(no offense we are just discussing) ...
1.They quote the verses where God says that he revealed "kitab/book and hikmah/wisdom" and extricate from it that it must be that kitab and hikma are two separate things(because of conjunction waw/and)- two revelations Kitab=Quran and Himkma= sunnah/hadith...
The distinction between the words book and wisdom, or kitab and hikmah, is used by all who have an interest to support other sources besides the Quran. Sources such as hadith and sunna, both of which are false innovations and will never be supported by those who have knowledge from the Quran, a scripture which clarifies all matters of wisdom.
[44:4] In it (the scripture), every matter of wisdom is clarified.
2.And RK qouted the verse where God say that he "did not send before you any messenger, nor a prophet" and you conclude that it must be two separate and distinct things(because of conjunction wa/and-translated as nor). (prophet who brings the book and messenger who do not brings the book)
This is pure sunnism....
This is pure Quran. And the understanding is clear. This is by no means the only verse that confirms the Quranic explanation of the different functions, messengership and prophethood. There is no doubt however, from a Quranic perspective, that they are different. Here is the Quranic evidence.
In verse 6:89 God says, "Those were the ones to whom we have given the scripture...." In the verses preceeding 6:89 He lists 20 names, i.e. 20 prophets, delivering in total 19 scriptures (Moses & Aron received the same scripture). To read more about this, please click here.
Beyond that there are several verses in the Quran that proves to us that the function of messengership does not involve receiving scripture, but rather conveying and confirming existing scripture:
[10:74] Then we sent after him messengers to their people, and they showed them clear proofs. But they were not to believe in what they had rejected in the past. We thus seal the hearts of the transgressors.
[7:101] We narrate to you the history of those communities: their messengers went to them with clear proofs, but they were not to believe in what they had rejected before. GOD thus seals the hearts of the disbelievers.
Here we clearly see that whatever the messengers are preaching falls under the category of what has been "rejected before/in the past". How do you reconciled that with the understanding that every messenger also receives a scripture?
There is a difference between a scripture from God and a message from God, as the following verse clearly shows as well:
[40:70] They are the ones who have disbelieved in the scripture, and in the messages we have sent with our messengers. Therefore, they will surely find out.
Messengership is a function of conveying a message from God, supported by proofs. We read about angel messengers visiting Abraham and Lot for example.
[11:69] When our messengers went to Abraham with good news, they said, "Peace." He said, "Peace," and soon brought a roasted calf.
[11:77] When our messengers went to Lot, they were mistreated, and he was embarrassed by their presence. He said, "This is a difficult day."
God calls them his 'rasuls's' or His 'messengers'. Yet, they deliver no scripture from the Almighty, just good news and warnings. And as God says, He chooses His 'rasuls' from among the angels and from among the people:
[22:75] GOD chooses from among the angels messengers, as well as from among the people. GOD is Hearer, Seer.
Hud, Saleh, and Shu 'aib did not recieve any scriptures, but they are named 'messengers' in the Quran:
[7:73] To Thamoud we sent their brother Saaleh. He said, "O my people, worship GOD; you have no other god beside Him. Proof has been provided for you from your Lord: here is GOD's camel, to serve as a sign for you. Let her eat from GOD's land, and do not touch her with any harm, lest you incur a painful retribution.
[7:85] To Midyan we sent their brother Shu`aib. He said, "O my people, worship GOD; you have no other god beside Him. Proof has come to you from your Lord. You shall give full weight and full measure when you trade. Do not cheat the people out of their rights. Do not corrupt the earth after it has been set straight. This is better for you, if you are believers.
Verse No Khalifa Pickthall Shakir Yusuf Ali 26:123 `Aad disbelieved the messengers. (The tribe of) A'ad denied the messengers (of Allah). Ad gave the lie to the apostles. The 'Ad (people) rejected the apostles. 26:124 Their brother Hood said to them, "Would you not be righteous? When their brother Hud said unto them: Will ye not ward off (evil) ? When their brother Hud said to them: Will you not guard (against evil)? Behold, their brother Hud said to them: "Will ye not fear (God)? 26:125 "I am an honest messenger to you. Lo! I am a faithful messenger unto you, Surely I am a faithful apostle to you; "I am to you an apostle worthy of all trust: 26:126 "You shall reverence GOD, and obey me. So keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Therefore guard against (the punishment of) Allah and obey me: "So fear God and obey me.
Verse No Khalifa Pickthall Shakir Yusuf Ali 26:142 Their brother Saaleh said to them, "Would you not be righteous? When their brother Salih said unto them: Will ye not ward off (evil) ? When their brother Salih said to them: Will you not guard (against evil)? Behold, their brother Salih said to them: "Will you not fear (God)? 26:143 "I am an honest messenger to you. Lo! I am a faithful messenger unto you, Surely I am a faithful apostle to you "I am to you an apostle worthy of all trust. 26:144 "You shall reverence GOD, and obey me. So keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Therefore guard against (the punishment of) Allah and obey me: "So fear God, and obey me. 26:145 "I do not ask you for any wage; my wage comes only from the Lord of the universe. And I ask of you no wage therefor; my wage is the concern only of the Lord of the Worlds. And I do not ask you any reward for it; my reward is only with the Lord of the worlds: "No reward do I ask of you for it: my reward is only from the Lord of the Worlds. 26:146 "Do you suppose you will be left forever, secure in this state? Will ye be left secure in that which is here before us, Will you be left secure in what is here; "Will ye be left secure, in (the enjoyment of) all that ye have here?-
Verse No Khalifa Pickthall Shakir Yusuf Ali 26:176 The People of the Woods disbelieved the messengers. The dwellers in the wood (of Midian) denied the messengers (of Allah), The dwellers of the thicket gave the lie to the apostles. The Companions of the Wood rejected the apostles. 26:177 Shu`aib said to them, "Would you not be righteous? When Shu'eyb said unto them: Will ye not ward off (evil) ? When Shu'aib said to them: Will you not guard (against evil)? Behold, Shu'aib said to them: "Will ye not fear (God)? 26:178 "I am an honest messenger to you. Lo! I am a faithful messenger unto you, Surely I am a faithful apostle to you; "I am to you an apostle worthy of all trust. 26:179 "You shall reverence GOD, and obey me. So keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Therefore guard against (the punishment of) Allah and obey me: "So fear God and obey me. Nowhere in the Quran is any of these messengers associated with the term 'Scripture'. Non of them recieved or delivered a Scripture. Thus, they are not prophets, according to the definition of 2:213. Or do you still think they were prophets as well?
The role of the messengers, according to the Quran, is to preach existing scripture, deliver good news and warnings, and deliver proofs of the same. Here is another verse from the Quran that proves that messengers come to confirm existing scriptures.
[2:101] Now that a messenger from GOD has come to them, and even though he proves and confirms their own scripture, some followers of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) disregard GOD's scripture
behind their backs, as if they never had any scripture.1.Kitab/book and hikmah/wisdom are two inseparable aspects of the one same thing -Quran. and, in regards to humans,
Yes, that is correct. Since the scripture is from God, it also contains wisdom.
2.messenger and prophet/announcer are two *inseparable* aspects of one same thing...the man who is sent from God with God`s message to humanity to announce it to them
Yes, a man who recieves a scripture from God must also preach and announce it. Thus his first function is to be a prophet, i.e. receive what he is to recieve, the second function is to convey what he has received. This is why throughout the Quran, whenever we are told to "obey", it is the commands conveyed by God's messengers, never by God's prophets. Prophets never issue any commands, they only recieve. Messengers issue and convey commands.
And the words messenger and prophet are used INTERCHANGEABLY IN WHOLE QURAN...warning And I REPEAT,Khalifas definitions are false - UNQURANIC definitions.
The wisdom is in the book, these are not two separate things as you correctly point out. This however must not be confused with God sending both prophets and messengers.
As proven above, we learn from the Quran that each prophet is a messenger, but not each messenger is a prophet. Prophethood is a function that is very specific and involves receiving new scripture. The functions of messengers is to convey and confirm existing scriptures. This is why every prophet must also be a messenger, but not each messenger is a prophet.
God lists the prophets that He has sent, 20 of them, delivering 19 scriptures altogether (Moses & Aron recieved the same scripture), the Quran being the final one.
Verse No Khalifa 6:83 Such was our argument, with which we supported Abraham against his people. We exalt whomever we will to higher ranks. Your Lord is Most Wise, Omniscient. 6:84 And we granted him Isaac and Jacob, and we guided both of them. Similarly, we guided Noah before that, and from his descendants (we guided) David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron. We thus reward the righteous. 6:85 Also, Zachariah, John, Jesus, and Elias; all were righteous. 6:86 And Ismail, Elisha, Jonah, and Lot; each of these we distinguished over all the people. 6:87 From among their ancestors, their descendants, and their siblings, we chose many, and we guided them in a straight path. 6:88 Such is GOD's guidance, with which He guides whomever He chooses from among His servants. Had any of them fallen into idolatry, their works would have been nullified. 6:89 Those were the ones to whom we have given the scripture, wisdom, and prophethood. If these people disbelieve, we will substitute others in their place, and the new people will not be disbelievers. Furthermore, God clearly explains that He did not tell us about all His messengers.
[4:164] Messengers we have told you about, and messengers we never told you about. And GOD spoke to Moses directly.
[40:78] We have sent messengers before you - some of them we mentioned to you, and some we did not mention to you. No messenger can produce any miracle without GOD's authorization. Once GOD's judgment is issued, the truth dominates, and the falsifiers are exposed and humiliated.
How do you make sense of that fact, if each messenger receives a scripture? Are you suggesting God sent messengers with scriptures He never told us about?
See these verses below( as well as many others in Quran)...
2:285, “The messenger believes in what has been sent dawn to him from His Lord and so do the faithful. They all believe in God and His malai’ka , His books and **His messengers**/rusulihi, we make no distinction among any of His messengers/rusulihi.”
2:177, “ The righteous one is he who believes in God and the last day, and His mala’ika and His books and His **prophets/nabiyyeen**.”
You see in one verse they believe in messengers and in the other they believe in prophets...
Also...
2:136, “ Say: “ We believe in God and that which is sent down to us and what was sent down to Ibrahim and Isma&eel and Ishaq and Ya&qoob and the tribes and what was given to Musa and &isa and what was given to the NABIYYOON/prophets from their Lord, we make no distinction among any of them.”
Connect it with 2/285 where they make no distiction among messengers....
Specially see this verse:
“All who obey God and the messenger (ar rasool) are in the company of those on whom is the grace of God.- of the prophets/(nebijjeena) the sincere (lovers of the truth) (as sidiqeena) and the witnesses (wash shuha daa) and the righteous. How beautiful is their company.” 4:69
So according to RK those who obey messenger will not be in company of messengers in heaven ???
They will be in company of prophets only???
And messengers will not be in heaven??
Rashad Khalifa never made such an ignorant statement.
The veres you cite here list attributes of the righteous. It is not a complete list of verses listing those attributes in the Quran. The righteous also believe in the Day of Judgement, which is another criteria for making it back into God's Kingdom.
[70:26] They believe in the Day of Judgment.
The Quran clearly states that God guarantees victory for his messengers. Rashad never claimed anything differently.
[37:171-172] Our decision is already decreed for our servants the messengers. They are surely the victors.
[14:47] Do not think that GOD will ever break His promise to His messengers. GOD is Almighty, Avenger.
God says that as long as there are children of Adam on this earth, there will be messengers:
[7:35] O children of Adam, when messengers come to you from among you, and recite My revelations to you, those who take heed and lead a righteous life, will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
That is until the last day. However, as we also learn from the Quran, it is a tragic human trait to state that God will never send another messenger after the last one. After Joseph, people said;
[40:34] Joseph had come to you before that with clear revelations, but you continued to doubt his message. Then, when he died you said, "GOD will not send any other messenger after him. (He was the last messenger)!" GOD thus sends astray those who are transgressors, doubtful.
As we can see in Judaism, Christianity and now Islam, they've all gone astray because they cannot accept when God renews His message through someone new;
[2:90] Miserable indeed is what they sold their souls for - rejecting these revelations of GOD out of sheer resentment that GOD should bestow His grace upon whomever He chooses from among His servants. Consequently, they incurred wrath upon wrath. The disbelievers have incurred a
humiliating retribution.[40:83] When their messengers went to them with clear proofs, they rejoiced in the knowledge they had inherited, and the very things they ridiculed were the cause of their fall.
God teaches us that He sends His messengers in succession.
[23:44] Then we sent our messengers in succession. Every time a messenger went to his community, they disbelieved him. Consequently, we annihilated them, one after the other, and made them history. The people who disbelieved have perished.
He also tells us that there are messengers He never even mentioned to us in the scriptures. This, again, is proof that they did not receive any scriptures, but still were messengers in the eyes of God.
[40:78] We have sent messengers before you - some of them we mentioned to you, and some we did not mention to you. No messenger can produce any miracle without GOD's authorization. Once GOD's judgment is issued, the truth dominates, and the falsifiers are exposed and humiliated.
Also...
In 3:144, God says: “ wa ma muhamadun ila rasoolun qad khalat min qablihir rusul”
“Muhamed is but a messenger many messengers have passed away before him…”
So, according to RK Muhamad is only a messenger and not a prophet????
But muhamed is called messenger as well as prophet in Quran...
This verse is translated the same regardless of which translator you read. So, why are you upset citing the Quran?
Verse No Khalifa Pickthall Shakir Yusuf Ali 3:144 Muhammad was no more than a messenger like the messengers before him. Should he die or get killed, would you turn back on your heels? Anyone who turns back on his heels, does not hurt GOD in the least. GOD rewards those who are appreciative. Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him. Will it be that, when he dieth or is slain, ye will turn back on your heels ? He who turneth back on his heels doth no hurt to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful. And Muhammad is no more than an apostle; the apostles have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels!s, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful. Muhammad is no more than an apostle: many Were the apostle that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to God; but God (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude. Rashad never claimed that prophet Muhammad was only a messenger. He consistently stated that Muhammad was the final prophet. He never claimed anything else.
This verse does not suggest that Muhammad was not a prophet. The verse is phrased that way because people idolize him. God wants to remind people that Muhammad was just like anyone of the other messengers, no more, no less. Yet, some people idolize him as if he had godlike powers, such as the power of intercession, which he does not have. This is why God uses the very same words to describe Jesus, warning people not to raise him to something he was not. Yet, as we see in the verse following, people have a tendency to worship powerless idols.
[5:75] The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate!
[5:76] Say, "Would you worship beside GOD powerless idols who can neither harm you, nor benefit you? GOD is Hearer, Omniscient."
(see also 43:57-59)
The terms prophet and messenger simply are different terms for different functions believing men fulfill. Some get both duties, some one of them. Prophet Muhammad got both duties, 1) to receive and deliver the scripture, 2) to preach it.
Specially see this, they(BOTH) bring The book:
2/213: Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them)***prophets*** as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith THE BOOK with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed.
57/25 We verily sent Our ***messengers*** with clear proofs, and revealed with them THE BOOK and the Balance, that mankind may observe right measure;
SO IT IS CLEAR LIKE DAYlight THAT MESSENGER AND PROPHET ARE TWO TERMS USED INTERCHANGEABLY IN QURAN and two INSEPARABLE facets of one same person/thing
And there is no room for those who claim that they are messengers but not prophets...
As explained above, prophets are always messengers as well, but not all messengers are prophets. Both however, preach the scripture to the people. Prophets recieve and preach new scripture, messengers confirms and preaches existing scripture.
And as we learn from the Quran, God informs us of the coming of His Messenger of the Covenant AFTER all His scriptures have been revealed.
[3:81] GOD took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."
[33:7] Recall that we took from the prophets their covenant, including you (O Muhammad), Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary. We took from them a solemn pledge.