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The text by the challenger is in Blue - The answer is in Black. For your convenience the challenge is represented by it's main objections/points. We've not taken the time to answer arguments that are not fact or source based. An example of such an argument would be, "because of false data" without listing an example or making a reference that lists an example.
If we look at it this way or that, and do this or that - there is no chance we wont get..
A believer in code 19 wrote: ******* There are 114 chapters in the Qur'an. 6 x 19, 619 the 114th prime number. The total occurrences of the sets of "ayatul kitab" in His Book is 30. 30 is the 19th composite number. The initialed Suras occur in His Book in a set for 67 Suras (from Sura 2 to Sura 68). 67 is the 19th prime number. Within this set of 67 Suras, there are 38 uninitialled Suras. (2x19) Further, this set of 67 Suras consist of alternating sets of initialed (I) and uninitiallised (U) Suras ... We see that they consist of 19 alternating sets of initialed and uninitialled Suras. ALL these facts are *independant* of any human influence. These should be *sufficient* proof that God created a Pattern in His Book that involves the number 19. We can see that there is *intent* in regards the Structure of Quran. Anyone who believes the Quran is from God knows that none of the above can be attributed to random chance or accident as well- it *defies reason* - and shows *intent*. God knows what He is doing with His Book!! ******
Answer:
-first initialed surah is No2 (and it is one of 3 surahs where issue -bring sura(s) like this- is issued for which believers in code claim reffers to divine nature of sums/counts/etc of initials and its surahs) - BUT 2 is not divisible with 19 -it is 113th surah from the end of Quran -113 is not divisible by 19 -it has 286 verses -286 is not divisible with 19.
So, in essence you are here saying, 'look at these two numbers here which are NOT divisible and ignore all the previous facts that shows a pattern of 19'!!?
Very few suras in the Quran has a total number of verses which are mutliples of 19. The total number of verses however is 6346, which is 19x334. To add to the observations reported between the first initialled sura and verse, namely 2:1 and the last, namely 68:1. The word God occurs 2641 times (19x139) beween these two occurences. Furthermore, the number of verses from the first Quranic initial (2:1) to the last (68:1) are exactly 5263, or 19x277.
Would you consider that perhaps when God said;
[10:1] A.L.R.* These (letters) are the proofs of this book of wisdom.
[12:1] A.L.R. These (letters) are proofs of this profound scripture.*
[13:1] A. L. M. R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture. What is revealed to you from your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.
[15:1] A.L.R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture; a profound Quran.
[26:1-2] T. S. M.* (Ta, Seen, Mim) These (letters) constitute proofs of this clarifying scripture.
[27:1] T. S.* These (letters) constitute proofs of the Quran; a profound scripture.
[28:2] These (letters) constitute proofs of this profound book.
[31:2] These (letters) constitute proofs of this book of wisdom.
- perhaps He meant something by it!?
Its initials are ALM Their gematrical values are as follows: -A=1-not divisible by 19 -L=30-not divisible by 19 -M=40-not divisible by 19 -Their sum is 71-not divisible by 19 -sum of their digits is 1+3+0+4+0=8-not divisible by 19.
Let us demonstrate the level of your logic, God willing. G is just a letter, so is O, D, A, L, N and e. It doesn't mean that the Quran preaches worship GOD ALONE!
Here are a list of the simple facts of the miracle. You decide if you think this is nonsensical, or if you think God in fact placed a deliberate pattern of 19 in His scripture:
1. The first verse (1:1),known as "Basmalah," consists of 19 letters.
2. The Quran consists of 114 suras, which is ..............19 x 6. 3. The total number of verses in the Quran is 6346, or ....19 x 334.
[6234 numbered verses & 112 un-numbered verses4. The Basmalah occurs 114 times, despite its conspicuous
absence from Sura 9 (it occurs twice in Sura 27) & 114= 19x6.
5. From the missing Basmalah of Sura 9 to the extra
Basmalah of Sura 27, there are precisely ...............19 suras.
6. It follows that the total of the sura numbers from
9 to 27 (9+10+11+12+...+26+27) is 342, or .............19 x 18.
7. This total (342) also equals the number of words
between the two Basmalahs of Sura 27, and 342 = ........19 x 18.
8. The famous first revelation (96:1-5) consists of .......19 words.
9. This 19-worded first revelation consists of 76 letters .19 x 4.10. Sura 96, first in the chronological sequence, consists
of .....................................................19 verses.
11. This first chronological sura is placed atop the last ..19 suras.
12. Sura 96 consists of 304 Arabic letters, and 304 equals .19 x 16.
13. The last revelation (Sura 110) consists of ............19 words.
14. The first verse of the last revelation (110:1) consists
of ....................................................19 letters.
15. 14 different Arabic letters, form 14 different sets of
"Quranic Initials" (such as A.L.M. of 2:1), and prefix
29 suras. These numbers add up to 14+14+29 = 57 = ......19 x 3.16. The total of the 29 sura numbers where the Quranic
Initials occur is 2+3+7+...+50+68 = 822, and 822+14
(14 sets of initials) equals 836, or ................. 19 x 44.
17. Between the first initialed sura (Sura 2) and the last
initialed sura (Sura 68) there are 38 un-initialed suras 19 x 2.
18. Between the first and last initialed sura there are ....19 sets
of alternating "initialed" and "un-initialed" suras.
19. The Quran mentions 30 different numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,
6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 19, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80,
99, 100, 200, 300, 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000, 50,000, &Here are counts of letters ALM in surah 2(counts from an 19-authority- Abu Jamil from www.q-zone.com) -There are 4206 A(alifs)in surah 2 -4206 is not divisible by 19 -Count of L is 3202 in surah 2-not divisible by 19 - Count of M is 2195 in surah 2-not divisibly by 19 -Thir sum is 9603-not divisible by 19.
Who is Abu Jamil? If he truly was an authority on the miracle of 19, he would report the correct numbers, as reported by the one who discovered the miracle by God's grace. He is consistently conveying the wrong information about the miracle. The correct total is 9899, which is 19x521.
For those who wish to take their own minds, hearing and eyesight seriously and look for yourself, please visit: www.submission.info.
-If we count all of their occurences in intialed surahs where this set is found (Set -Alif Lam Meem) (surahs 2,3,7,13,29,30,31,32) we get 25853- not 19-divisible -also 2+5+8+5+3=23-is not divisible by 19
Another misleading and false piece of information. To verify, please visit: www.submission.info.
-when we count initial A separately in all initialed surahs where it occurs we get 16007-not 19 divisible when we count initial L separately in all initialed surahs where it occurs we get 11797-not 19 divisible -when we count initial M separatelly in all initialed surahs where it occurs we get 8659 -not divisible by 19
The system is such that the Initials are counted in their respective suras. sura 2 for example is prefixed with 3 initials, A.L.M. Thus all those three initials, in that particular sura, is counted.
-This set is found at the top of 8 surahs-8 not divisible by 19 -Not a single number out of these surahs is divisible by 19- 2,3,7,13,29,30,31,32
Every single one of these suras produce multiples of 19. To verify, please visit: www.submission.info.
-when we add up them we get 147-not divisible by 19 -when we ad up its digits 1+4+7=12 ,12 is not 19 divisible
That is right. These numbers are not. I guess using this kind of logic , you would throw out a map if you found that every house and street number were not marked in it, even if it was correct and would take you to your destination? It may have all the right roads, highways, streetnumbers and exits clearly marked and visible, but you'd rather be without it because all the small side roads were not marked?
There are literally thousands of straightforward, clear and verifiable findings in the Quran. For those who wish to take this invitation seriously, and familiarize yourself with God's proof to our generation and generations to come by which He supported His clarifying and consolidating messenger, please visit: www.submission.info
-last initialed surah is surah no 68 - 68 is not dividible by 19 -it is 47th surah from the end of Quran- 47 is not divisible by 19 -its initial is N it has 132 n -132 is not dividsible with 19 -its gemetrical value is 50 -not divisible by 19 -when we add up 50 and 132 we get 182-not divisible by 19 -when we substract it we get 82 -not divisible by 19 -wehn we add up their digits we get 5+0+1+3+2=11-not divisible by 19 -when we add up surah 2 and surah 68 we get 70 -70 is not divisible by 19 -when we add up gematrical values of their initials N=50 A=1 L=30 M=40 we get 131 -not divisible by 19
Another set of arguments discrediting the map of the world because the housenumbers are not marked!!
etcetcetc i really have no energy nor time to involve further myself today in these number(possibly later), but it is obvious that all of the 19 divisble numbers presented by Scot render/melt down and start to look less impresive when we see all of these numbers which are NOT divisible by 19...
More complaints about the details in the map....
Again, for those who wish to take a few minutes to take their own minds, hearings, eyesight and salvation seriously, please visit: www.submission.info.
His 19 divisible hits are PRESELECTED ... During a period of 3o years(!!!) people were trying every possible combination and divide it by 19 ...And, since every 19th number in the universe of numbers is 19 divisible, it is QUITE NATURAL that they have found a few of 19 divisible calculations ...BUT believers in code presents ONLY those patterns that works and NEVER(or very rarely) PRESENTS the patterns that gives NOT 19 divisibility.. This is in order that people may get impressed...
And people often DO get impressed because they intuitively are not aware of existing of an ocean of numbers and statistics that could be observed/analysed in Quran...And oridinary people do not know that number-fanatics-who are madly in love with 19- work day and night fishing all possible 19 divisible numbers and calculations...
There are certainly people who will fall into this, and get consumed by the number 19 in the wrong way. It may have happened already for some people. This is sad.
The purpose of the miracle of 19, according to the Quran, is to remove doubts about God's message. Once that is achieved, the natural outcome is that people focus the majority of their attention on the message itself, and not on the numbers.
As with everything, even good things, there is always room for abuse. This does not make that good thing in itself bad. What is unfortunate for some people is that they watch the behaviour of some people who may be misrepresenting the miracle and the message, and loose out on this great opportunity to a very powerful awakening and strengthening experience, spiritually. God is running everything.
When someone believe in code 19 all that he see in quran are its features that somehow could be conected to 19 ..he is eager to find more and more paterns and to "witness" more and more signs and miracles and HIMSELF and participate in revealing "Gods neverending 19 miracle"... They use a whole bunch of different calculations and clasification of numbers in order that they somehow discover some alleged patern- they count initials , they ad up it summs, they calculate its gematrical values,they count initialed and uninitialed surahs etc.etc.etc., they use different scale of nubers-prime numbers, composite nubers , twin primes , etcetcetc They observe- interpret- calculate -add up verse numbers,or digits of verse nubers or surah numbers etcetc etcetc And NATURALY, changing criterias and analysing in many different ways they can allways find something interesting.
Again, if someone did this, this would be wrong, and not the purpose of the miracle according to the Quran and according to the person blessed with conveying it to the world.
For example they say from the first initialed surah to the last initialed surah is 67 surahs, and 67 is 19th prime number... BUT **in the case that it did not work*** THEY WOULD NEVER MENTIONED IT,and they would find some other way to get 67/19th prime... they could say: first initialed surah is xx and last is xx,and if we add up them we get 19th prime, or: first or last surah is xx and it is 19th prime or: it is xxth surah from the end of quran and it is 19th prime or: count of initals in last/first/or sum of surahs etc is xx and if we divide it by 19 we get 19 th prime or 19th composit or 19th twin prime or it has so and so verses and if we do this or that we get etcetcetcetc whatever...BUT they would surely found something and they would stated their favourite question:Is it coincidence? Yes my dears, it IS !!!
You seem to be reporting and reasoning a lot around the numbers presented by people other than Rashad Khalifa. There are some people who have claimed messengership based on the number 19 after the revelation of the Quranic miracle. In average probably 1 every year. All of them have one thing in common. They disagree with part of the message that was preached by Rashad Khalifa, the one God commissioned to unveil and proclaim the hidden secret of its mathematical composition in the Quran.
As with all the other times God's message is renewed, there are strong forces set in motion to neturalize and distort the message and divert our attention away from it. This time is no different.
You can take 15 minutes of your time to read and study for yourself what was actually preached by Rashad Khalifa, please visit: www.submission.info. Then make up your mind if anything you see is not logical, fully supported and verifiable by and in the Quran!
And claim that: ** Anyone who believes the Quran is from God knows that none of the above(e.i.19 divisible stuff) can be attributed to random chance or accident as well- it *defies reason* - and shows *intent*. God knows what He is doing with His Book!! **
represent the utter ignorance of statistic, mathematic, and Gods laws in the universum, as well as, anyone who truly believes in Quran know that code 19 is but a satanic invention ...
Cause, God knows what He is doing with his book and NOWHERE in His detail book He has mentioned this satanic code, on contrary, code 19 and all of its calculations,counts and its ideology and doctrines contradict Quranic phylosophy in almost every way...
peace, Zlatan
All this time spent and all this reasoning, without giving even one example of how the Quranic philosophy, or how the Quranic doctrines, principles and essence is contradicted. Why is that?
We invite you to undertake our challenge on this site, to come up with practices or principles preached by Rashad Khalifa which you deem unQuranic. We promise to publish your challenge and your views in full together with our response, as we have done here. To send in a challenge, please visit the following page: