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Challenge: Subject: More about initials.
A believer in code 19 wrote:
> What I mentioned were simple *facts* (I did not make any "analysis")
What you mentioned are five(5)19-divisible sets of initials and what you DID NOT MENTION are EIGHT(8)or nine(9)sets that ARE NOT 19 DIVISIBLE, which proves that "initials" have nothing to do with code 19.
IF IT WAS GOD`S INTENTION to code quran, ALL of 14 sets of initials would be 19 divisible.
All sets are divisible by 19. To familiarize yourself with and verify all the facts, please visit the following page: http://www.submission.org/miracle/visual.html
You says that bismilahs are consistently included in letter counts and participate in structure. BUT, it ONLY refers to five(5) 19-divisible sets and in regards other 8 EIGHT sets that are not divisible, it is the same whether you include them or not they ARE NOT 19 divisible. (You again fail to mention sets that are not 19 divisible. This a kind of disease of believes in the code. Whatever is not 19 divisible they do not mention it.)
There are no short cuts to this. Whoever reads about this, must choose to have a look at the information for themselves, then decide whether to reject or verify. All the sets are divisible by 19. You are the one who falsely claim they are not.
To familiarize yourself with and verify all the facts, please visit the following page: http://www.submission.org/miracle/visual.html
Not to mention that there are other numerous ways of analising initials, for example: *When counted alone/separately,ONLY one(1)* out of 14 quranic initials shows 19 divisibility in initialed surahs (notice that this is separate count of initials in chapters where they occur/crown the chapter-for example- count of letter Q in all initialed chapters where it crowns the chapter is 114=6 ×19 -the count is19 divisible, BUT, it is the only initial which shows 19 divisibility when initials are analysed in this way!!!)
(This,you`ll agree, for sure do not represent any code.)
*Only three(3)* out of 29 initialed surahs show 19 divisible sum of "initials" that crown particular chapter.
If this was true, you would indeed have reason to doubt, and actually should doubt the entire thing. This however is NOT the case.
(This is apsolutely normal statistical variation and this can not, , constitute any code, and not to speak about DIVINE CODE and PROOF of divinity of the Quran.)
*Only four(4)* out of 30 sets of quranic initials shows 19-divisible sum of "initials" that crown particular chapter.
Not true. To familiarize yourself with and verify all the facts, please visit the following page: http://www.submission.org/miracle/visual.html
The commentar is same as above.(Data/counts are taken from Abu Jamil -An authority among believers in the code from www.q-zone.com)
IF GOD`S INTENTION WAS TO EMBEDE A CODE IN QURAN, IT WOULD BE A PIECE OF CAKE for All-Mighty Creator of the Universe TO MAKE ALL THE SUMS in ALL these different ways of analysis 19-divisible.
And THAT WOULD BE A DIVINE CODE and that would be a proof !!!
Glad to hear you say you think so. We think so to, and have witnessed this to be the case.
He would not left us to relie on false data, conjectures and ignorance of math. and statistics of code fanatics.
I WOULD ACCEPT a code as divine **EVEN** IF ONLY ONE out of numerous different (but consistent) methods of analysing initials COULD RESULT IN ALL 19-divisible summs/sets.
BUT, people investigate count, calculate, analyse and check during 30 years and they tried all the methods of analysis and counting and whole spectar of various exclusions and inclusions and what did they find is ONLY FIVE(5) out of 14 sets ????? And even this is only if include letter from bismilahs for which they claim that ARE NOT part of surahs but only preceed them and which they excluded when they counted words in Quran(what a consistency!!!).
Such a slopy code can not be a result of DIVINE design. It looks divine to you because of your prejudice that there is a code in Quran. Besides that... You only CONJECTURE that Alif initlaled sets will be 19 divisible one day. You have no knowledge about it and God did not revealed anything about it to you. According Abu Jamil datas ONLY ONE out of four alif sets are 19 divisible.
Regarding letters(or sets)Nun and Sad. They are NOT 19 divisible.
You are free to correct them in Quran based on your conjecture, but ,even then, there is no code. But you have to know that from the moment when you start to correct texts and to pick and choose from various scripts to repare your hallucinated code- it, by definition, could not be called a divine code and design, but human`s code and design.
Agree. The code is correct as revealed. It can also be witnessed as revealed.
One day you will surely find a way, using different texts, to make all sets 19 divisible.
But you have to know that I(human) COULD PRODUCE AND DESIGN "quranic code" BASED ON ANY NUMBER IF i am allowed to pick and to choose from various scripts and texts of Quran as you.
[6:93] Who is more evil than one who fabricates lies and attributes them to GOD, or says, "I have received divine inspiration," when no such inspiration was given to him, or says, "I can write the same as GOD's revelations?" If only you could see the transgressors at the time of death! The angels extend their hands to them, saying, "Let go of your souls. Today, you have incurred a shameful retribution for saying about GOD other than the truth, and for being too arrogant to accept His revelations.
[17:88] Say, "If all the humans and all the jinns banded together in order to produce a Quran like this, they could never produce anything like it, no matter how much assistance they lent one another."
For centuries people thought this challenge was in regard to the literary composition of the Quran. We now understand that it has to do with the mathematical composition o this perfect revelation, free of contradictions.
Again, if there is a code in Quran God in his fuly detailed book would not fail to mention it(specialy becuse of reasons mentioned above). Since He did not, you only conjecture. And twist the verses to justify your hallucinated code.
This is wishful thinking on your part. God's system has never been to explain in what form He will send the next proof, nor the names of the coming messengers and prophets. This is the talking of someone who wishes to decide how things are being done, not someone who submits to God's choices for him.
[21:23] He is never to be asked about anything He does, while all others are questioned.
On the end, i recommend to you, as well to other believers in code a basic courses in:
1 Arabic 2 Statistics Plus, 3 Reading and meditating upon Quran.
But of course, previously you have to take RK`s glasses off.
To understand the Quran one does not have to know Arabic.To appreciate the miracle one does not have to study statistics. We should all read and study the Quran carefully and meditate.
The criteria for understanding God's message is sincerity. A sincere heart rejoices in remembering God, and only God. An insincere heart must mention other names along side God's name to rejoice. They are thus not able to utter the correct Shahaadah, as written in 3:18:
[3:18] GOD bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge. Truthfully and equitably, He is the absolute god; there is no god but He, the Almighty, Most Wise.
Test this with people you know who claim to believe in the Quran. They will not be able to say this without adding the name of one of the prophets.